Mr. Johnson, are you ready to talk about a few things? Are you ready to talk about the incarnation? Are you ready to talk about the Holy Spirit? Well, I'm glad you're ready to talk all about that on 2 26 20 23. Where we're cha covering? Chapters five and six of Knowing God by j Packer, the Signature Edition.

Funny, funny, funny, funny.

I can learn English , you were called a different name and blah blah blah. And you're going to hell and I'm going to hell six times over cuz I got six tattoos. So do you wanna do the intro, Mr. Josh Brewer? What was my name? Mr. Josh Brewer. 

Almost Johnson Brewer. I was gonna say 

like he was going Josh Johnson.

Yeah. No, it almost was Johnson. Power Rangers. I keep confusing you and your husband's name? Mr. Josh. Josh Brewer. I know it is tough. It's one of those things where I think everyone in the world has just learned to accept that you and Josh are two sides of the same coin. Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. And Amy realizes that she is married to both of you.

Poor Amy. I know. Poor, poor Amy. It, it was, uh, definitely. Yeah. Poor Amy. Uh, that wedding she lost. She, she, yeah, she lost. But today, this month we're covering chapters five and six of j i Packers, knowing God now. Chapter five is a meaty, meaty, meaty thick boy. Oh, okay. He, chapter five is thick with like 10 Cs in there thick.

Yes. Yeah. And it's not in the good thick way. . No, it, it is a very meaty and heavy chapter. No, but it is an important one in chapter six. Well, when we get there, I'll, I'll explain a little bit more. I think it was a good chapter, why it was important as well. Mm-hmm. chapter six, um, now this week I'm trying something new.

I asked ai Oh, okay. To summarize chapter five for me. Yeah. And it did a pretty good job. So let me read you the summary that AI generated, and then we'll get into chapter five. Okay. Okay. So chapter five is, call is calling, is called god incarnate. And here how is. , and when I say the ai, in this case, I use the AI that was built into my note taking software to generate this.

I didn't use chat, g P. I thought about it, but I didn't use it for this. I used G P T for chapter six. However, chapter five of knowing God is titled God Incarnate. In this chapter, packer talks about the importance of understanding the concept of the incarnation of God in Jesus Christ. He emphasizes that the incarnation is not just a theological concept, but a reality that has practical implications for our lives as Christ.

Packer explains that the incarnation means that God became a man in Jesus Christ. He argues that this is a unique and unprecedented event in human history. He goes on to explain why this event is so important for Christians. First, the incarnation shows us that God is not distant and remote, but he is intimately involved in our lives.

Secondly, the incarnation provides us with a perfect example of how to live a godly life. Third, the incarnation enables us to have a personal relationship with God. Packer also addresses some common misunderstandings about the incarnation. He explains that Jesus was not just a good moral teacher, but he was actually God in human.

He also refutes the idea that Jesus was only a spiritual being and did not have a physical body. In conclusion, packer argues that the incarnation is a foundational truth of the Christian faith. He encourages Christians to meditate on the reality of the incarnation and to let it transform their lives.

I'll be honest, I thought it was a pretty decent summary of chapter five. I don't know what Aaron thinks about it, but that's, uh, Hey man, 

it's at least something I can understand. , . 

It's at least something you can understand. I, I get it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , so chapter five started off with the term that I was like, wait, wait, wait.

Write in the second p. I didn't know what it was, so I had to look it up. Oh, Roman gibbet. Yeah. Yeah. Nope. You don't know what that is? Nope. Okay. That's what I figured. I didn't know it either. A gibbet is an instrument of public execution. This includes a guillotine, an executioners block, uh, impalment steak hanging galls, or relaying scaffold.

In other words, this case, what it says, one man expiring on a roben gibbet the. , that's all it means. Mm-hmm. , that, that's, that's all he mean. He, he, he had to sound fancy. Yeah. Sounds about right. So I, I, I want, if you're reading the book at all, I, I'd say it's worth it so far, uh, that I'll say so far. Um, I, I always have the right to change my vote later.

Hmm. But I, I was like, okay, what the heck is a give it ? And this is the one time this week I did actually mark up my book. And you see there's a question mark right next to the line that says, give it, what is this? I figured 

it wasn't good. Yeah. I guess I didn't know specifically. What day Gibb 

was. So I want to address that right away because Gibb it Gibb it gibb it.

It sounds like I'm saying Ribbit. . It's frog. Where he's not talking about a frog, he's talking about a cross. Completely different thing. Oh yes. With that outta the way, that one piece out of the way, that piece of trivia. Now I have a thing to say. What is a gibbet? Good sir. And I hope to hear a good. , what stuck out to you about chapter five in this book, Mr.

Johnson? I mean, I, 

it is kind of straight to the point of how it's talking about the importance of, um, Jesus being both God and man, and that's what was just, uh, just hurting my brain so much. Back and forth. And now I already forgot the name cuz I have dead space on the mind. . Kenosis, um, kenosis is that root.

That's what the theory of kenosis, 

right? Yeah. So the theory of kenosis, is that in this chapter or is that on chapter six? This is this chapter. It is. Okay. It's on page 59. All right. Yeah. Okay. I couldn't find it. So first off, do you know what Kenosis is? Oh gosh. 

Well, I did, do I remember? No. . Okay. . Oh, so this so-called kenosis theory, kenosis being Greek.

The Greek word for emptying the idea behind it in all its forms is that in order to be fully human, the sun had to renounce some of his divine qualities. Yes. Otherwise, he could have shared the experience of being limited. Limited in space, time, knowledge, and consciousness. , which is essential to truly human life.

Okay. Uh, the theory has been formulated in different ways. Some have argued that, um, the son put off only his metaphysical attributes. Omnipotent, omni, omnipotent. Yes. I'm the presence omniscience, retaining the moral ones. Justice, holiness, truthfulness. Love others, uh, have maintained that when he became man, he renounced all his specifically divine powers and his divine self-consciousness too, though, in the course of his earthly life, he reacquired 

the ladder.

So, yeah. So Kenosis is essentially saying it's, it's a, he removed some aspect of Yep. Emptying of himself. Yes. Now, the one thing. That I, and this is on the next page, on page 60 here. Mm-hmm. , uh, this, this phrase stuck out to me, so I did a little digging because I was like, what I, have you ever heard of the Phillips translation of the New Testament?

I had never heard of this. Mm-hmm. until I was reading through this book. So the Phillips translation of the New Testament was essentially done by Anglican. Uh, I believe it was a priest one. Back in the fifties. Okay. And he, it was a one man translation of the New Testament and the phrase that stuck out to me, he goes, the Phillips Phillips and King James renderings of Philippians two seven are correct interpretations of Paul's meaning in our words.

What he is saying is these two are correct. The others that say other things are not so much. King James version says, but made himself of no reputation and took upon him the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men. Uh, the Phillips translation says, but stripped himself of all privilege by consenting to be a slave by nature, and being born as immoral Man.

That's what those two translations say. The other ones that obviously he's not a fan of, they all ha have one word in common. Hmm. Except he doesn't talk about the new King James, new King James. All, all King James probably fits in right in there cuz it says, made himself of no reputation. Right? But the other ones all have one word in, uh, in common, emptied.

Ah. And so, uh, you know, I, I, because like, so e s v, but emptied himself by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men, the a s V, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant being made in the likeness of men, the Young's literal transla. But did not empty himself. The but did empty, I'm sorry.

Hmm. But did empty himself the form of a servant having taken in the likeness of men having been made. That's a mouthful. Mm-hmm. the Christian standard Bible. Instead, he emptied himself by assuming the form of a servant, taken the likeness of humanity. And when he had come as a man, uh, the 1890 Darby translation, but emptied himself, taking a Bonds man's form, taking his place in the likeness of men.

The note I wrote for that is this Packer assert that the King James and Phillips translations and I have wrote here, never used that one before. Um, are are the correct translations. This is a dangerous assertion as their based in theology on one, an older translation, the King James and the Phillips translation, which was done by one person back in the 1950s.

Now, this translation, I'm not saying it's bad, I haven't read it or anything. It was originally done as a way to help his youth group read the Bible. Um, it was New Testament. Only the Old Testament was not translated by him. New Testament, only I'll say grain of caution against using only one or two translations, especially when they are biased to fit your desire to read things as you want to into the scripture to fit your theological, you know, thing.

Mm-hmm. , I get what he wants to say. Because he doesn't like this kenosis theory, to be honest, from reading it. Right. Because he does say, but the kenos theory will not stand. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, eh, I, I get what he's going at and I get what he doesn't like about it. But I think part of it is valid, but, uh, that, that's, uh, what you call a secondary issue, that's not a primary issue.

This isn't something that would cause, like if he was still. This wouldn't be a thing that I'd say, wait for me, evil, wicked person. It'd be like, Hey, you know what? I don't agree with you on this, but hey, guess what? We can still worship God and the church together. It's not like, it'd be like, oh, only one of us can stay in the church.

It's like, okay, hey, you must 

leave. Yeah. Him not being like a, I don't know if like some people viewed it as worshiping two gods in a sense that like they separate the son and the father kind of. 

Okay, so he's talking about how some other places, uh, he's talking about this, I believe, on, uh, page 53. He says, this is the real stumbling, blocking Christianity, the incarnation.

It is here that Jews, Muslims, Unitarian, Jehovah's Witnesses, and many of those who feel the difficulty concerning the virgin birth, the miracles that determine in the resurrection have come, uh, to grief. Uh, nope, I'm thinking of somewhere else completely. Um, that what you were just talking 


Okay. I'd say it's funny cuz then I just found that, uh, yeah.

Paragraph where you're reading from. Okay. So there's a part also at the bottom of page 52 where, okay. So yeah, the last paragraph of page 52 is, or again, take the virgin birth, which has been widely denied among protest. In this century, how people ask, can one possibly believe in such a biological anomaly?

my, I guess response to that was, you know, what do these other people then believe or whatever, because I mean, there's people that literally just believe that the universe has something to do. Their life here on earth and stuff like that. So I guess , my one thought was, I guess what's so much more crazy about believing this than you believing some crazy thing?

Well, as a, the whole, something came from nothing, you 

know, whatever. And well notice what he says though here. Hmm. And it's right in there that this is the crazy part that makes it weirder. Okay? Mm-hmm. . Which has been widely denied among Protestants. Yeah. What does that mean? 

Gosh, I, it's, I don't even know 

what, what are Protestants?

I'm trying to remember. I don't know. So there's Catholic? Yes. And then Protestants. Protestants, yeah. I Christians are not a Catholic. Essentially the follow the Reformation. So that could include your Baptist, that could include. Uh, Methodist That can include, in other words, what he's saying is modern Christians.

Yes. Regardless of denomination other than Catholic. So this conclude Anang Kinna as well. He's saying modern Christians of this century. Yeah. Deny the virgin birth. The virgin birth. He's not saying non-Christians denied. He saying he's just saying Christians. 

Christians amongst well, and then even then, I guess what, that's true.

That's a good point. I didn't. Think that far ahead or not, not think that far, but just in, I guess in the end they don't believe necessarily in the whole universe stuff, but I'm curious now as to then what do they believe? How did Jesus come 

to be? And this is where it it it starts to get interesting cuz there's all these various divisions in the church and that's why he wrote this, this book, right?

This chapter, I should say specifically. Mm-hmm. is because there are people who try. Basically say Jesus is just a good, a good man, a good, a good teacher, even in mm-hmm. , even in some of the Christian denominations, they don't put as high an emphasis on it for whatever reason. I, I, I, I don't know why in that, and to be honest, I don't deal with a lot of Protestants in of that mindset.

I've heard of it. Right. I know it's not, I've known a few people, but it's not something that I come across normally. That's so weird to me. I mean, there's like, so there's the what? The unification movement, I believe it's called Unification Church. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , it was a church found in South Korea, doesn't teach that Jesus was born, born of a virgin birth.

Right. So it's, and usually. Protestant groups that do this more than likely, I'm not saying a hundred percent of the time, but more than likely have an ulterior motive in it. Probably a little culty, probably a little, you know, doing some things. So interesting. So that, and that's why he says right away in, at the start of this chapter, he.

Many make faith harder than he be by finding difficulties in the wrong places. Mm-hmm. , where are these wrong places? He's talking about miracles and all that. He says the real difficulty is in the Christmas message of incarnation . Jesus of Nazareth was a true, truly, and fully divine as he was human.

Mm-hmm. , I'm paraphrasing. There's a dots in there. Uh, basically I just summarized one paragraph from page 53 to, into that little sentence. There's a lot. Dot, dot, dot . Yeah. And he goes This, this being the truth of the incarnation is the real stumbling block in Christianity. He says, Virgin ber miracles, atonement, resurrection.

Have come to grief, but once incarnation is grasped as reality, these other difficulties dissolve. Now I, I guess that's a really high view of people that, oh, once I believe the incarnation fully, these other things, so just miracles are, will just fall. There are some people who it's gonna still be hard for, but what he's trying to say is, unless.

Fully grasps and believe in the incarnation. You can't believe in. These are things you can't believe in these doors. The resurrection atonement. The resurrection, yeah. You can't believe that Jesus walked a wire. You can't believe that he fed the 5,000. You can't believe any of this because your foundation is insecure.

Right. And that's what he, 

which I get. Yeah. I get what he's, yeah, I get that. I did, uh, , like the little section where he talks about the Christmas story, where, so the story is, Usually pretty up when we tell, tell at Christmas by Christmas, but it is really rather beastly and cruel. Oh, and like, uh, oh, sorry.

On page 54 in the first paragraph of Who is this child? And like, looking back on it, I, I'm, this is one thing I guess I was, I'm kind of curious if it's like, I wonder how he was told about it and. or like the whole Christmas, uh, Tivity scene and all that stuff. Right. Was taught to 'em because like looking back through like school and Sunday school and all this other stuff, I guess, yeah.

I was never told about kind of like, just like the reality of, of what it was really like. Obviously you heard about how, you know they were denied a room at, at the end, whatever, cuz it was full and they just went to some little manger thing or whatever. Yeah. Like I never thought about just like, well one, how sick that is on a.

Human level where it's like, you're gonna deny this lady who's about to pop, like, no, you can't stay here and get kind of thing. It's like, how, who would do something like that to somebody? One, it's like, that's 

terrible. Um, and then two, to give birth out in a manger. Yeah. With all these animals around. Now it's dirty.

This is disgusting biological fact here. You know when that happens, there's a lot of L, let me put this discharge, let L, we'll make it nice. . Okay. That's gonna get stuck in the hay and smell and Oh yeah. Yeah. It's dirty. It's gross. Yep. You'll probably have an animal sitting down there going, Ooh, tastiness.

Hey, , . 

Yeah. For real though. So it's, uh, like seeing the picture of, you know, Christ being born and just like getting a better understanding of the circumstances and stuff. It's like, and you realize who this is that is being born here. It's like, Wow. . Right. Talk about, I guess I, well you could say humble beginnings or whatever.

It's just like, 

goodness. And that's why he says it's puttied up. Yeah. It's So they put a lot of lipstick on that pig . Yeah. To bring it up to, uh, modern colloquialism. It's like, oh yeah. It's just, oh, it's 

just a man. It's probably nice and cozy and No, no, it's probably cold and none of the above. . So I . I like that little snippet.

I was like, ain't that the truth? That's man, that's just with any granted for Sunday school and stuff like that. At a certain age, it's like you don't wanna necessarily dive into all of the real nasty situations 

of the Bible, but can you imagine, Mr. Johnson, you have a kid and your son comes up to your future?

Mommy. Mommy. Mommy. Guess what we learned at Sunday School today? Oh, what is it? Little Aaron Jr. We learned that Mary's water broke in the manger and she spilled all over us. Yeah. Well, 

at least that one I wouldn't be so upset 

about. But, uh, yeah. But , but still there's a age appropriateness too. Mm-hmm. , you'd be like, wait, what?

What? You're, you're fifth grade or no kindergarten. You shouldn't be learning about this . 

Yeah. It's, it that's, yeah, that's, it's just so funny. That's the thing though. I was like, I never ever remember like anything, Changing though, as far as like all the Bible stories and stuff like that. Like the whole setting never changed.

It never like, I guess this whole sense of realness was never Ed brought into it. Right? It 

was just, and and the way we think about it. Yeah. With the main scene. Yeah. Like we think about it in the terms of when we celebrate Christmas, 

right? Yeah. And everything's all, 

but if you think about that, right? Okay.

Yeah. A manger in the middle winter would be darn. Well, yeah, but that's when we celebrated. Right. The act a lot of, there's a lot of debate. Okay. So of when the actual birth of rest was. But a lot of people seem to think it's like a summer, spring thing. Yeah. Which at least makes, it, means it'd be at least hopefully warmer.

Well, that's, 

I I can't even point to where on a map he would've been born in Bethlehem. Well, no, no, I know that, but like, I don't know where it is. I don't know on a map as far as where is it to the equator and all this other stuff. I don't know. I 

don't know. Beth, you you need some geography lessons, sir?

Last time I took a geography class was in seventh grade . Why? Because high school never had anything for it. . 

Oh, you are? Uh, I know the Middle East. You know the Middle East. Congratulations. I. Asia is, do you? Sure. Do you really know where 

it is? Somewhere across the 

ocean. So would it be what, Hey, there it is.

Good job. 

I'm sure. Well, yeah. Obviously it'd still get cold during wintertime. Yeah, 

it's put this way, the, obviously not directly, but it's. About your Missouri, Texas border. Yeah. So yeah, it's gonna get cold at times. There's definitely times for it to go bad, but you also have that nice little bodies of water right there too.

Right? Shaping your temperatures and that. But regardless of fact, yeah, that's how it is right now. . It's 57 degrees Fahrenheit there. 

Oh, I'll take that over what we got right now. So, I mean, 

it's not too bad here, but yeah. , so that's what it was today. But yes, so we talk about that and he goes, oh, it's Puttied up, but he mm-hmm.

talks about that in the guise of who is this child, and he makes a very important note here. Mm-hmm. . He says that this is the son, not a son. Yes. 

The. Yeah. Not one of many or . 

Well, the terminology is kind of important or just, and, and the reason is, is and talks about the further down the page here on 55 he says, mm-hmm.

Jew Jewish theology used it in the, it was the phrase, son of God as a title for the expected human Messiah. Mm-hmm. Greek mythology, told of many sons of God. Superman, born of a union between a God and a human. In neither of these cases did the phrase convey the thought of personal deity. And what he's talking about here is that Jesus is human, but he also has personal deity.

Mm-hmm. . Okay. And he says this makes it clear. In the book of John, uh, chapter one, that Jesus has a matter of personal deity. So that's why I said that that phrase, the son, son of God, is important because of how it was used in the cultural context of the time in which the book was written. It, depending on who you talked to, it displayed a.

Specific meaning again, for the Jews, it meant a human messiah. Yeah. For the Greek, it was the union between a god and man. and the fact that as you read through the Greek, all the Greeks didn't have their personal deity. As he, as he talks about, he says that all these, all these people, you know, all these, these half breeds, essentially they're half got half human.

They only added up to a hundred percent. Whereas Jesus himself had added up to 200%, essentially, right? He was a hundred percent man, a hundred percent human. 

He a hundred percent. Didi, and hundred percent 

yes. , my brain got, um, a little ahead of itself. And, and does that, um, the phrase I think you were looking for earlier because of that 200% thing and also.

This here. Does the statement that Jesus is, God's son mean that there are really two gods? Is Christianity then polytheistic as Jews and Muslims maintain or does the phrase, son of God? I play imply that Jesus, though, in a class by himself among Korea beings, was not personally divine in the same sense as the father is.

and then that's when they talk about some of these early church thoughts and that and about how God, and they're trying to reconcile how Jesus could be fully man and fully divine all at the same time. And, and then what he does is he transitions into this phrase here and he transitions into the Book of John chapter one.

I don't know if he caught that or not. On page 56, he says, God's word in the Old Testament is his creative utterance, his power in action, fulfilling his purpose, right? The Old Testament depicted God's utterance, the actual statement of his purpose as having power in itself to affect the thing purposed.

And then he goes, then he goes through this. He goes, all right In, in the book of John, first John, right here, or John one, excuse me. Not first John. John one. He goes, in the beginning was the word. Where is it? John, see these seven points that he has? Yeah. These are seven points that he pulls from the first book of John.

The first, oh, I'm sorry. Okay. The first 14 verses of John, he goes, in the beginning was the word. Yeah. Again, we, we, we talked about earlier, God's word in the Old Testament is his creative utterance, right? Mm-hmm. , and the word was with.

and the word was God. Mm-hmm. . And then it skips down two verses through him, all things were made through him. Who is him? In this case, the word in him was life. Who is him again? The word. Mm-hmm. . And that life was the light of men. And then in verse 14, the word became flesh. Okay, here's the word incarnate.

Mm-hmm. , the baby at the ma manger at Bethlehem was none other than the eternal word of God. So what John, he's saying is John's doing is he's going, taking a step by step. He's saying, this is who Jesus is. He's God's word. This is, and he's tying it back and he's saying this, this is power. This is what his role is.

Mm-hmm. , this is what he's doing. He's calling out specifically the son of God is the word of God. Yes. We see what the word is. Well, that is what the son. Therefore, oh, it says when, therefore the Bible proclaims Jesus as the son of God. The statement is meant as an assertion of his distinct personal deity.

And then he continues on here. Mm-hmm. talking about this and he says the word had become flesh of real human baby. In other words, this isn't God minus some elements of his deity, but God plus all that he hadn't made his own. Mm-hmm. By taking manhood. And I love this statement and it, it puts some things into perspective cuz.

People always go, well, how, how, how do we know that, that Jesus was tempted? You know? And he go, this is, I like this statement here. It's on page 57. He says, he who made the angels who became, or excuse me, he who made the angel, who became the devil was now in a state in which he could be tempted by the devil.

That's crazy. . 

Yeah. That was, that was one line. I was just like,

Man. Why, 

why did you say 

Amen? Yeah. The one thing I had underlining to, uh, was that he was no less God than, than, than before. Um, which is just right above where you were. It was, uh, The baby born at Bethlehem was God made man. The word had become flesh, which you'd said a real human baby. He had not ceased to be God.

He was no less God than then before. It's weird. I've never Yeah. Used than, than like that. 

Hmm. British. Gotta give the British thing. 

Speak American. 

I'm just kidding. . I'm kidding. So the last thing that I kind of took a lot, it took, uh, uh, I guess a line to, a underline to mm-hmm. . Not a line to a like cross out, but like a Yeah.

Line to, uh, it's on page 61, and this is a continuation of that whole kinosis. Yeah. Okay. And where he's talking, he goes, well, the gospel themselves presents evidence against the Kenos theory. I was like, oh, really? Okay. Let's see how he goes. It is true that Jesus' knowledge of things, both human and divine was sometimes limited.

All right. Which, You know, for me goes, wait, that points to Kenosis would piece That would point to it. Yeah. Yeah. , that's what, that's why I was like, wait a minute, this points to Kenosis. Um, hello? Mm-hmm. . He goes, he asks occasionally for information. For example, who touched my clothes? How many loaves do you have?

But other times he displays supernatural knowledge. And I don't know, I haven't done a deep dive into those verses, but I remember taking my New Testament classes. I remember. Learning from a bunch of people. Those aren't so much the who touched my clothes, how many lows you have. Those aren't so much like, oh, I am dumb and I don't know this information.

They didn't know it. It was more like giving the person who touched the clothes like a chance, not, not to repent, but to be like, come forward, display, come forward. Yeah. Do they have the faith for not to come forward? The the lobe saying wasn't so much a, oh, I, I know you have her lobes, but how many loaves do you have?

It, it was more like that. It was more like, I'm inviting you. To see the miracle that I'm about to have by asking you, how many loaves do you have? Oh, you only have five. Watch what I'm about to do with you. Yeah. Watch what I'm about to do. Not in a self bragging, grandiose way, but more along the lines of, Hey, look.

Yeah. Just so you're aware this is what's happening. So I disagree with pe with his assertion here. Yeah. That, that is in fact, and this is just my personal thing, I, I do hold to some of the kenosis theory in, in that regard. Um, Some of that restraint in that, but that, that's one of those things of, I'm not, I'm not like a hold fast to kenosis thing that's a, eh, it makes kind of sense for me, but I can be easily persuade away with evidence one way or the other.


You know, that was one, well, as you were just kinda describing how you, uh, How Jesus didn't, it's not that he didn't actually know or that whole thing. That's how I've always heard it kind of taught where it's like whenever something like that was brought up where it's like, oh, Jesus didn't know or he wanted know who, yeah.

Touched. Touched him or whatnot. It was, they were always like, he actually knew it was Yeah. Just giving them an opportunity. Yeah. So that's how I've always been taught that stuff. Yep. So to hear this whole thing about him, like he, he didn't actually know, which is I guess would be weird. And I don't know, I guess how, especially that could 

be legitimate, especially so, so here's how so, uh, to give Packer credit Yeah.

And to explain how it may be legitimate according to his own thinking. Okay. So he doesn't, first off, he doesn't go with the kenosis theory at all. He, he's like, no, no. Kenosis. Uhuh. However, at the bottom of 61 and part, part top part of 62, he talks about how Jesus willingly limits his knowledge and powers and abilities.

Not that he empties himself, but willingly limits them. Right? He also talks an alternate idea on page 60. That he has the ability to know these things, but God the father wills it, that he doesn't, so therefore he doesn't know those things. So that's another alternative explanation he gives as well. On page 62.

So I'm like, so you're trying to make this long, complicated way around Kenosis. Okay, got it. Yeah, I get it. You don't like it? Yeah, I, I understand. That's okay. That is okay. You can not like it all you want, but yeah. Really, chapter five really comes back to the heart of the fact that the incarnation is true through a virgin.

It does not make Jesus the second God. It makes him the second part of the triune God. Really what he's talking about here, and he's trying to simplify down, but it doesn't necessarily do in Chapter six as it really a continuation of Chapter five. Mm-hmm. is he's trying to simplify the concept of the Trinity.



I just find it funny trying to simplify the concept of the Trinity. I'm like,

it just makes it a little more confusing. 

Yeah. I guess then to some degree it's like, I guess then what do I really understand of the Trinity, other than it's three in one. 

Well, and and remember, so they have their own role. So remember in here we were talking about Jesus is the word. Mm-hmm. . No. Well, now we're gonna talk about chapter six, unless you have anything else in chapter five.

No. No. Okay. In chapter six, he talks about how the Holy Spirit is the breath. Yeah. Okay, so I'm gonna read you the AI summary of chapter six first. Please do. Okay. Uh, this one was generated by Notions AI as, uh, or excuse me, this was CHATT Chat. G P T, sorry, not Ocean. The first one was Notion ai. This one's chat g.

in chapter six of knowing God, Packard discusses the importance of the Holy Spirit in the Christian life. He argues that the Holy Spirit is not simply a force or power, but rather a person who is a member of the Trinity. Mm-hmm. the Holy Spirit is, is responsible for the new birth, which is the beginning of the Christian life.

Hacker also discusses the role of the Holy Spirit in sanctification. He explains that the Holy Spirit helps Christians to grow in their faith and become more like Christ. This process involves both putting off the old self and putting on the new self, which is made possible by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Mm-hmm. . Furthermore, packer emphasizes that the Holy Spirit is essential for prayer. He explains that the Holy Spirit helps Christians to play, to pray according to God's will, and gives them the words to say when they don't know how to pray. Mm-hmm. , in conclusion, packer argues that the Holy Spirit is a vital aspect of the Christian life.

Without the Holy Spirit, Christians cannot be born again, cannot grow in their faith, and cannot pray effectively. Yeah, the spirit's pretty important. Yep. . Now compared to chapter five, this one's definitely a lot shorter. , yeah. Uh, being only seven pages in total. Yes. Uh, it's definitely less thick. It's less meaty.

It's, it, it's definitely, uh, all that. But he talks about, right away he goes, talks about the training. He goes, Trias is a Latin word, meaning threeness and re, and he goes, it is often assumed that the doctrine of the Trinity, just because it mis is mysterious. Is a piece of theological lumber that we can get on very happily without.

Mm-hmm. And I'm like, no, no, it is very important. . Yep. And going through it. Um, he, he does say that on, uh, page 66 under the heading third person. Mm-hmm. . He talks about how the Holy Spirit is a comforter. And then he says, depending on the translation, uh, it could be counselor, helper, advocate, befriend you.

Mm-hmm. , uh, it could be all those things, but he goes, but it's another comforter. He goes, Jesus was a original comforter, and the new newcomers task was to continue. , this side of his ministry. I was like, all right, I, I get what you're saying, you know? Mm-hmm. . And if you look at, for example, the E S V, the SV does, uh, he says MoFA, but that's helper as well.


That's funny is because Yeah, , this didn't make me just think of, um, A lot. The, the, the book that we, uh, I read with Ben and stuff like that in the little small group, cuz it did, uh, have a section where it talked about the spirit a little bit and the importance of the spirit. And that was, as it said in the chat, g p T thing.

One of the, I guess like going back and looking through, I had listed like the, uh, I guess. I dunno, jobs of the Holy Spirit, what it does for us and stuff. Well, what the spirit does for us. And when I came across the one where it, uh, for prayer where it's like it can, you know, when we don't have the words to say it can communicate that to God and stuff like that, it's like, Like I never knew that aspect about, about the spirit.

I was thought that was really cool. Cause there's a lot of times if I go into prayers like, man, I even know where to go right now, . Yeah. I don't know what's going 

on. Yeah. We'll, we'll get, we'll get into more topic about that in a minute here. Yeah. So something else I found interesting, uh, in page 67, he says this.

Mm-hmm. in the Old Testament, god's. And God's spirit are parallel figures. God's word is his almighty speech. God's spirit is his almighty breath. Oh my God. Both phrases convey the thought of his power in action. You know, it says the speech and the breath of God appear together in the record of creation.

The spirit breath of God was hovering over the waters and God said, and there. . This is back in Genesis one, two through three by the word of the Lord, where the heavens made their starry host by the breath, spirit of his mouth. Psalm 33, 6. And then I, I, I underline, un underline underline, underlined. This John's gospel shows how Christ related the spirit's mission to the will and purpose of the Father and the.

and I wrote this in my notes as well. I said, this has implications. Spirit, breath. Look, all the way back in Genesis one, God's spoken things were created. Mm-hmm. . And when he created man, he breathed into him the breath of life. These things were from the beginning, it just says John showed. The word was Jesus.

He's also showing that the spirit, the breath also has its own distinct personality as well. Yeah. And then I'd like how he emphasizes this if the Ministry of Christ, the comforter was important. , the ministry of the Holy Spirit, the new comforter can scarcely be less important. So if the Holy Spirit is sent as the new comforter, right?

Mm-hmm. , then the mission of the Holy Spirit can't be less than of importance than the mission, mission and ministry of Christ before him. 

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. It's just taking his. Well, he is now in a sense, separated 

from us. Yep. And I actually chuckled at this line. The person and work of Christ have been and remained subjects of constant debate within the church if the person and work of the Holy Spirit are largely ignored.

The doctrine of the Holy Spirit is the Cinderella of Christian doctrine. Calling back to that classic tell tale of Cinderella, stepmother, stepsisters, and that

And he says the average Christian deep down is in complete fog as to what the Holy Spirit does. Like you were saying, you, you wrote down what the Spirit does in your book and that is a thing. If I'm being a hundred percent honest, you know, that I, I see a lot of churches, I guess devalue right? The spirit and it was, and okay, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm choosing my words carefully here cuz I'm not trying to be like, I'm trying to start anything.

Not to, to do anything, right. Too late. No, I'm just kidding. , you know, it, it was when I changed churches recently. Mm-hmm. , it was a completely different experience. Let's say, first off, different atmosphere. First off. Yeah. Well, yes. Different atmosphere. Yeah. Um, first off, you know, it, it was completely weird not being behind like a board or an instrument doing something.

Okay. Doing, doing a task. Yeah. It, it was completely different doing. At the same time, one of the things I noticed the first week there, it all meant for me personally. Mm-hmm. , it was a little uncomfortable the first time. , you know, like, they're like, cuz every church I've been to before, they always do the, okay, come hold this prayer, blah, blah, blah.

You know? But it's maybe in a prayer that they say that mm-hmm . But this was, uh, no, we're gonna actually spend time inviting the Holy Spirit to come and move and help us to. . Mm-hmm. . And I was like, wait, what? ? It was different, you know? Yeah. Something that is definitely not, I guess you could say the, it's, I'm not saying it's not present in all churches, I'm just saying how it's addressed is sometimes different and it's a culture shock for me.

Yeah. To have it so direct, let's say. Right. As opposed to other places where maybe it's talked about in a study group, but not talked about really 

anywhere else. That's, yeah, and that's funny cuz that's, that's something that my dad is always stressed about and he is like he's, when it comes to the spirit, it's just not talked about, which I.

Find funny how that this has he, this section where it's divine yet ignored. Yeah. And it is talking about the importance of the spirit's work. And I was like, oh, I wonder where my dad got there from . Well, I guess it might not have just been through here, but Yeah. And that's definitely like the more I paid attention to that, I was like, yeah, I, I don't know like how often I've ever heard either one, the spirit being talked about, but then it's like, when.

there are the times that he is mentioned, like, it's like I make sure to pay attention a little bit more in that way. in that instant. Yeah. Or cuz it's like, it's not something that I'm, I'm normally in tune to hear, so I'm like, 

yeah. And like I said, that has been a very big culture change for me. Mm-hmm.

because every first off, it's a culture change because literal. And again, not trying to throw shade or anything here. Okay. No, it's, it's just a different way that, that different churches operate. Okay. Um, literally no matter what the topic is. So, for example, today's topic was on how Christians, uh, should respond to the government, according to Romans 13.

Mm-hmm. . But even with all that going on, they still threw in the gospel message. And that has happened every week. I've been there. Hmm. Every, yeah. I have since I started going there. They're always asking for the spirit to come and move and to help. And it's just a completely different atmosphere. That's, yeah, it's a completely different in the fact that, like I said, you know, coming from that more conservative Baptist background, that wasn't something that happened that often, to be honest.

So yeah, it's taken me a little time to and kind of adjust. Adjust to that. Adjust to it. But at the same time, I'm realizing it's not a thing where they're theologically outta whack or anything with it. And then maybe it's like, okay, maybe this is just something I haven't learned fully through. Mm-hmm.

various things. So I'm like taking the time to kind of sit back and reflect on these things. So that's why. And then, and then we read this and, and I'm like, seriously? Okay. What the , I get the point. , I get the point. That's funny. And I, and I find some of now, okay. . The next couple things I'm gonna say are interesting.

Mm-hmm. , because I, I'm like, hacker. Are you losing some of your Calvinistic ways? . Oh, . And then chapter seven goes and Decimate. I thought . Oh dang. Yeah. I actually wrote in the, in the edge of my book or my book right here. Not very Calvinist. So let's talk about what that is. Yes. So on page 69, he says this statement, which I think is.

He goes without the Holy Spirit, there would be no gospel and no New Testament. He then goes on to say, without the Holy Spirit, there would be no faith and no new birth. In short. Mm-hmm. , no. Christians. Christians. Christians, yep. And he's talking about this and he says a bunch of other stuff. He goes like, nobody can prove the truth of Christianity except the Holy Spirit.

Uh, he also says, Other things right about the spirit abides with the church to testify of Christ to the apostles. He had testified by revealing and inspiring as we saw to the rest of us down the ages. He testifies by, by illuminating, opening blinded eyes, restoring spiritual vision, enabling sinners to see the gospels deeds, God truth in the line.

That made me underline and say, not very Calvinist of you. He goes, people come to faith when the gospel is preached with without the spirit there would. There would not be a Christian in the world. I wrote that originally saying not very Calvin. As I've thought upon it more and pondered on it more, it still fits in the Calvinistic stylings.

Yeah. Because, and, and I'll have to, I, I guess, I guess you could see issue, uh, retraction of my thing of like, oh, when before, when we talked about the Five Points of Calvin mm-hmm. and told to private. I was like, oh, I can get behind that. Right. Doing a little bit more digging. I'm like, no, I can't even get behind that one.

Because told depravity states that we are in such a state that even if we wanted to believe, unless the spirit and we were chosen ahead of time, regenerates us, we can't believe. That's, and so I'm like, so when I originally read this, I was like, oh, that's very not very Calvinist of you. And then I reread it again and I'm thinking out and I'm processing.

I'm like, it's okay. Still very Calvinistic. I'm like, oh, you almost had me Packer. You almost had me give, had hope for you. . Again, that's an internal debate. That's a secondary issue. That's not a primary issue. Primary issues are a lot more Gospel message, gospel message, and biblical interpretation. Things or trying to add things in that the Bible doesn't say and you want it to say it.

Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's a definitely a secondary thing, at least from my perspective. Mm-hmm. . So those are the things I took away and I was like, all right, the spirit does a lot of work. Yeah, he doesn't get enough credit. And then he gives a seven page chapter. . Yeah, . I was like, hacker. 

Which in say, in, um, in relation to the other stuff, it's like, oh,

So was there anything in chapter six that stood out to you, sir, that I didn't cover? I didn't pick up, I didn't, uh, highlight or expound upon, or As soon as 

you went into the hole. Uh, nor is this all in the second place. Without the Holy Spirit, there would be no faith in no new birth. So yeah, that was the big thing.

I was just like, . Ouch. Yeah. Yeah. The spirit is, uh, very indeed important. Just, I don't know, stuff blows my mind. 

Well, that's a good thing at times to blow your. 

Sometimes in a good way. Yes, . Yeah. 

Hmm. I thought of a very dark joke, but I'll leave it for off , off the mic. ? I said dark. I didn't say anything else.

I said dark. Yeah, . All right. Well, Mr. Johnson, is there anything else that you wanna say about these two lovely chapters that we have listened to or red not listened to? 

I feel better now. . 

You feel better now, huh? Yeah. I know this morning you're kind of feeling a little Oh, 

frigging. POed this morning, and hey again, that was more just at myself more than anything.

It's not Packard's fault, it's my fault. . 

Well, I mean, try and do homework at the last minute. Again, 

I guess going back into the lack thereof of just knowing things that you'd imagine 

most people. 

Probably have an idea for what things are. I was 

just like, you know what? You're assuming a lot of things that people know things when they really don't.

I mean, I guess 

so , I guess I do assume, yeah, I definitely assume that. Yeah. 

I, I know you do . What do you mean? All right, sir. 

Well, um, We'll continue to look forward to the next one. 

Yeah, me too. four chapters for the next month in 

March, something like that. 

Yeah, they're, they're relatively, I would imagine, yeah, well, 

the fir starting in part two.

Yeah. It's very 

quick. And then we get to hear what Aaron's next book for his book club is. I can't wait to hear what it is. All the large, lengthy words. No, the thick 

gothy sentences. I'm going to like the Bernstein Bears or something. I don't know. . 

Eric jumped over the cloudy fox.