Welcome to our new website!
April 18, 2023

Knowing God - Chapters 7 & 8

Welcome back to Paul and Aaron talking about J.I. Packer's Knowing God. This week we go over chapters seven and eight of the book and discuss a few things including: God's immutability, difference between immutability and mutability, the Holiness of God, and reverence that should characterize our relationship with Him.

Join us as we continue to go over this book.

Use Your Words podcast is passion project of two people from Southeastern Wisconsin. Please consider checking out the below links to learn/hear more. And join us every week for new episodes!

Visit our website: https://useyourwords.cc

Listen to the podcast on all of your devices: https://useyourwordspod.captivate.fm/listen

Watch On Youtube: Link

Send us an email: https://www.useyourwords.cc/contact

Read the blog: https://www.useyourwords.cc/blog

Welcome back to Paul and Aaron talking about J.I. Packer's Knowing God. This week we go over chapters seven and eight of the book and discuss a few things including: God's immutability, difference between immutability and mutability, the Holiness of God, and reverence that should characterize our relationship with Him.

Join us as we continue to go over this book.

Use Your Words podcast is passion project of two people from Southeastern Wisconsin. Please consider checking out the below links to learn/hear more. And join us every week for new episodes!

Visit our website: https://useyourwords.cc

Listen to the podcast on all of your devices: https://useyourwordspod.captivate.fm/listen

Watch On Youtube: Link

Send us an email: https://www.useyourwords.cc/contact

Read the blog: https://www.useyourwords.cc/blog


This is a 

pouty face. Oh no. I can only make that one. 

Hmm. Um,

I'm sorry. All right, Mr. Johnson, it is time for you to reveal all that you have read to us and the secrets of the universe that you have learned and discussed with j Packer himself. I didn't talk with him. 

Oh, I just 

read his stuff in the book. Well, you talked with his mind then. Mm-hmm. So now you're ready to reveal to us all that he has taught you all that you shall learn and know No.

You shall teach just everything that is in the book called Knowing God. That's such a bad way to say it. And then intro to that book title, isn't it? I guess I'm just gonna hand you the book and said, read that in your own, I got nothing. So welcome back to Use Your Words. I'm Paul, joined with Aaron once again, as he's sitting there looking all innocent as he is given us now our new outro for every episode.

Oh my gosh. Outro music. Exactly. I'm gonna create a shirt that just says Outro music. Outro music. Oh my goodness. And we are now discussing Chap, the next two chapters of Packer's book, knowing God. Um, the Signature Edition, of course. And we're gonna be discussing chapters seven and eight today, which will be entertaining to say least now.

Something to note. I am now on a Kindle. I did say I'm moving to a Kindle because of the fact that I was running outta book space also, Aaron goes on Friday or Saturday. I'm sorry. Don't hurt me. No, it's Friday. It was Friday. Oh yeah, it was Friday night. It was, and you go, don't hurt me. I left my book at work.

I was reading at work or on my break. Don't Hurt me. I forgot it. And I was, my reaction was like, I wouldn't hurt you. You would just have to learn about two new subjects really quickly within two days. Okay. Well, yeah, Uhhuh. And so I had to come over here anyways yesterday to set up our lovely new video grid video equipment and make sure everything worked right.

And yeah, took four hours to get everything up and running, but we got up and running and I left Aaron, my book. Yeah, and I was like, well, I don't have all my underlines. However, I do still have my notes from chapter seven and eight that I had written up previously to that. Oh, okay. 

So you, yeah. You got stuff 


Oh, I got stuff I got You got the stuff. I got AI summaries, I got notes. I got everything here still for seven, eight, and then for nine and 10. All my notes are now in my Kindle. Kindle, because I have one of those fancy Kindle scribes that you can write on. Ain't I fancy? Fancy. Oh, it's so fancy. You don't even know.


So that's where we're at. So if I happen to say today, Aaron, what did I underline? There's a reason for that. It's not because I'm asking Aaron to read my mind or to read my book. For me it's because, well, Aaron actually has my physical book, not your book, and he has all my underlines and I actually taught him some of how I underline and summarize things.

That kind of blew his mind a little bit before we started recording. It did. Oh, it did. 

I had never thought of such ways 

before. You've obviously never written a lot of research papers before college. What's college? Okay. Exactly. Not, not trying to cut you down or anything, but No, 

no, I, that's so I do it all myself.

All right, so let, let's go ahead and get started. Chapter seven and eight of Knowing God by J Packer. Chapter seven and knowing God is titled God unchanging. Hey, look at that. It actually is called God unchanging. Look at that. Yeah. Cool, cool, cool, cool. Uh, in this chapter, and I am going to read the AI summary first.

Oh, I know I don't have an ai did you in your AI stuff? I don't have an AI summary for nine 10, just cuz I didn't, I didn't have enough time to do it, but I have it for seven and eight. Anyways. In this chapter, hacker emphasizes the importance of understanding that God is unchanging or immutable in his character and attributes.

Now, I know we've talked about the word immutable before and Aaron's giving me the blink stare here in the headlights stare. We did. We probably definitely have. Oh yeah. We've talked about mutable versus immutable. 

Immutable just can't be. Immutable can't be changed. Im, I'm sorry. Yes, I'm sorry. Yeah.

Immutable is unchanging. It cannot be changed. Immutable. Immutable can be changed. Can be changed. 

Yes. Yep. So like I said, we've talked about immutable. Immutable before. Yes. Okay. Just making sure you are all on the same page here. Yes. Hecker argues that a correct understanding of God's immutability is crucial for our spiritual growth and our ability to trust God.

He explains, if we believe God's character and attributes can change, then we cannot have complete trust in him or rely on his promises. On the other hand, if we understand that God is unchanging, then we can trust him fully and have confidence in his promises. Packer also discusses some common misunderstandings about God's immutability, including the idea that God's unchanging nature means he is distant or uninvolved in our lives.

Packer emphasizes that while God's character and attributes are unchanging, he is still intimately involved in our lives and desires a personal relationship with us. Furthermore, packer highlights how the truth of God's unchanging nature improves our daily lives as believers. He suggests that if we truly believe God is unchanging, we will strive to grow in our knowledge of him and seek to obey him more fully.

Packer also argues that A, a correct understanding of God's immutability will lead us to worship him more deeply and appreciate his unchanging character and attributes. Overall. Chapter seven of Knowing God emphasizes the importance of understanding and appreciating God's unchanging nature as his foundational to our spiritual growth and our ability to trust and worship him fully.

Good job. Ai. Boom. That's 

pretty much where I thought about this one. 


Call you out. 

It was funny. I did, uh, fine this morning. Um, today, well, today being a Sunday, um, that was kind of what of our sermon was about at church today was trusting Nok, God. 

Okay. Hmm. Nito. Is it Nito? Yeah. All right. If it's nito as you put it. Yes. It's very neat. All right, so again, I don't have what I highlighted, so if I referenced something, I was like, okay, cool, whatever.

You might have to correct me on something I did or didn't highlight. Okay. But that being said, going over what you highlighted, what you wrote, what's your notes, what's your thoughts are, what you emphasized in that, what you processed and what you summarized here. What are your thoughts on chapter seven of God on changing.


my goodness. Um, 

and I'll say this, chapters seven and eight, unlike the previous couple chapters, is not as thick and heavy and right and meaty as them. 

I know. I wasn't, I wasn't 

just like seven through 10 are actually reading this quite small and not as, not as, not as thick. 

Right. They're only like, maybe they're only thick one C 

or standard smelling.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right. Gosh, I'm glad we atri attribute that to Packer. I'm sure he would appreciate that for his life. He'd be like, what is this? What is thick? You talk. I don't know why he has that accent in my head. He just does. No, I mean, he's British, but. Right? Yeah. British and Canadian English, whatever.

Yeah. And I apologize if my face all of a sudden looks like I have like got this heavenly glow. It's the sun. Like a shooting right outta my face. Cause 

we're talking about, oh God, he's giving you a glow also,

I don't know why. I just totally realized his last name is Packer. For the longest time I thought it was Packard.

Yeah. I 

dunno. I got nothing for this. 

Just cause that's how I thought. I always heard his Ja Packard and I was like, there's a T at the end of that. And then I looked at it, I was like, it's literally just Packer. 

You've had the book for how long? I've never have you read book. I've never 

had felt the need to read the, the.

Not Thursday. I 

swear I have been 


Oh no.

Oh no. I can only make that one.

I'm sorry. Thank you for helping me learn. I got nothing. I, yeah, I got no 


I, I'm sorry. I'm being for anyone at home. I'm being vulnerable. Okay. I'm putting myself out there. What? That you don't know how to read? Yeah. 

I gave me, I guess gotta start 

somewhere, right? Okay. I'll get you the book. The cat jumped over in moon.


All right. Anyways, enough screwing around here. How, tell me your thoughts on chapter seven of Packers. 

Packers, golly, uh, 

drummer, brick, the He

God. Nothing. Um, goodness. Well, oh gosh. Dang it. So four, four. Chapter seven. I, okay. God, I'm changing. Yeah. Um,

I mean, just pretty much you have the whole first page underlined. Well, again, as, so you have your own strategic way of underlining things. Right. Um,

the things that did. Like I don't, well I guess that stuck out to me cuz I guess I, I guess can relate to which I did, uh, thought was interesting with this morning from the sermon too, where I was talking about, you know, like the bible's very clear on things and whatnot and stuff, but I was like, for this sentence, but in the second paragraph, um, but as we read, we get more and more puzzled um, just through, well the fir after that first sentence.

Um, and reading the Bible, cuz especially for me,

I don't understand always is a whole lot. Um,

so that definitely makes it challenging to some degree.

Because it's like, I feel like I have to reread over and over and over and over again. That whole thing with repeating and like going over stuff a lot, you know, get you, I get sick of it 

even once from the Bible, 

huh? Well, I mean, I would like to be able to not have to do that, but I, my, my, my smartness level isn't there.

Um, let me ask you this then. What, and, and this is just a general question, it's nothing found in the book at all, so it's just riffing off of your comment you just said now, oh great. Yeah. You, because you, you're like, oh, my smartness level, blah, blah, blah, blah. Not able to understand it is cause I've heard a couple different people, I'm not gonna say who, you know, some who go, well, I need to know the historical, oh, things going on with it to understand it.

Or I need to know the cultural things. Is any of that part of that for you? Let me ask that first. Did I need to know that? Yeah, it'd be good to know that. But is it like, I think it's important to know that, but is it like a big impediment? Is like, are you going like, well, I can't understand this sentence if I don't understand the historical context of which this word was written in.

Is that a thing for you or is it more along the lines of, it'd be nice to know, but not necessary to know. I'm just curious. Eh, probably, it's probably 

more along the lines of the second one, so it'd be nice too now. Okay. Um, but I mean, for me it's lit. I mean, I guess it is just literally having the understanding of what some of the words actually mean as far as I guess, gosh, hot diggity.

Um, but I guess that doesn't get me hung up to where I don't try and keep going. Hmm. Yeah. 

Yeah. Don't overthink it. I was just, I was just questioning. 

Yeah, no, I'm good at that. Don't worry. I will. Okay. 

And the reason I, the reason I bring that up is cuz if, if, if you read near the bottom of that page, right?

Mm-hmm. He talks, uh, well, what is our trouble? Well, basically is this, our Bible has taken us into what, for us as quite a new world, namely the near Eastern world as it was thousands of year ago. Years ago. Right. Primitive and barbaric. Right. So that's why I was wondering if that was part of it or if not mm-hmm.

Because I know for some people that is a hangup. For some people it, it's not so much like me, I'm more curious about it. Mm-hmm. But it's not a hangup to where I, it's like, well, I, I can't understand it until then. It's, uh, oh, I will try to understand as best as I can, but once I learn something about it, then usually it's like, oh, well this adds another level of context to it.


Um, yeah, I would say more so along those lines then, 


Mm. And what I wrote in my notes was this, um, it all belongs to that world, not this world. In other words, some people see the old archaic world that the Bible has written in, and because of that don't understand how applied to this world and life then, uh, this assumes it makes a great assumption on the fact that everyone thinks this way.

While this may be true of some people, this is not a universal method of thinking. In fact, the biggest problem is actually the opposite. That where we ignore the things going on in the past and take everything exactly as it is in the current world. In other words, we try to take our current standards and methodologies and thoughts and apply it on old worlds ways and try to apply yeah, the current world to the ancient past.

Um, and I wrote maybe this was something that was not as big a thing going on at the time when Packer was running, uh, taking current things and apply, trying to apply it in the. When he was writing his book. But nowadays that seems to be all to common where people were taking modern things, putting 'em in past, ignoring the past completely.

Right. Or taking the, uh, modern cultural morals and saying, obviously because I believe in this, then that means that's what everyone believes in this. Especially in the old days, because I am smart. I got the blinds. 

No. Yeah. I, I didn't think, I, I guess that was kind of a new, I like concept for me as we're Yeah.

Uh, how we cannot see how the two worlds link up. Um, cuz obviously yes, they are very different. 90 day different from how things were back then to now. Right. But like to some degree it's still the same. 

Yeah, to some degree we're still human. We're still falling, we're still sinful, we're still greedy. We're still liars.

We're still deceitful. We're still full of envy, pride, lust, jealousy, greed, uh, shall continue on the list. We're still the same way in that regard. Yeah. Just how we do it is different now. We have the internet, so we can do it way faster than we could be for, and now we can do it intercontinental internationally over a wide swath of area instead of just our little town is swindling, the little old lad that lives just next door.

You know? Welcome to the modern world where our sin has gone to the speed of light through the internet. Sounds terrible,

but it's true. True. That's where we were at, at this, this point, you know? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Was there anything else at chapter seven stood out? I have some notes, but I just wanted to see if we can cut, if, if there's anything that you wanted to cover first. Uh, before we got into that, because seven is not that really long of a pa uh, a passage, a chapter, chapter in and of itself.

But even though that's the case, I do have some notes. 

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I don't have anything. I mean, besides, I mean, obviously the stuff that you have underlined is some of it's 

probably the, you're gonna have to remind me what I had underlined because I don't remember what I have underlined that day. Right.

I have an, an underlined chapter in front of me. So in 76, I'm much using my book. 

Yeah. I'm kind of curious. I want it, when I get my book back, I kind of wanna see, um, what you want show underlined. Yeah. Under underlying comp in comparison are the same, but, uh, so you do have, uh, in the first actual like full paragraph on 76, um, it all belongs to that world, not to this world.


Yeah. And that's kind of that note I had just read as well. Right. Um, and like I said, I still have some of my notes in my notions, so that's why I was like, oh look, I have this up on my notes here. Da da. 

Yes. And then, so yeah, the, the two links which Yep. Gone. Uh, so it's, yeah, we can ask you the two worlds link up and then you have underlying the sense of remoteness is an illusion which springs from seeking the link between our situation and that of the various Bible characters in the wrong place.


So hold up, let me, and I wrote this in my notes. The link between us and the past is God himself. Yes. Because God does not change and he is immutable. Yes. And then I wrote this next thing, we are mutable God isn't Right. Yeah. Simple. Honestly, if I had to summarize this chapter, it would be those words.

We are mutable. God isn't. Yeah. Um, and I had a sarcastic statement thereafter it somewhere on page 77 where he talks about strange shock or lobotomy can change, can alter the character of a person. I go, really? Now where's that? It, oh, at the end. Yeah. I was like, really? F strange shock or lobotomy can alter a person.

No, never knew that or I thought of that at all, but I, I know that was me being sarcastic. I didn't need to be, he 

was gone. Um, okay, so then, yeah, so that finishes, uh, 76 where cuz then you have on like the God is the link, God himself is the link. Um, that he is, uh, exactly the same.

Yeah, for God does not change in the least particular, um, so 70, 70 of God's immutability. Um, the first and fundamental difference between the creator and his creatures is that they are immutable and their nature admits of change, whereas God is immutable. And then you have the lovely lobotomy line on the line.

Yeah. Um,

I think I, there was something for me in, um, which, wow, I didn't go through an underlined again. Um, created things, have a beginning and, and this is on Sunday, seventh, sorry. So created things, have a beginning and an ending. But not so the creator. The answer to the child's question who made God is simply that God did not need to be made or he was always there.

He exists forever. Exists forever, and he is always the same. He does not grow older. His life does not wax or wane, which I've never heard that before. 

Okay. You've never heard wax or wane. Yeah. Okay. So you know the moon, right? Yes. It waxes and wanes. 


and wanes as it goes from a new moon to a full moon, and then full moon back to a new moon that's waxing and waning.

You know how it's like lighting up part of it on its way to becoming a full moon and then going back way to a new moon. So that's what waxing and waning is, if you wanna think of that imagery there. 

Interesting. Okay. Um, he does not gain new powers nor lose. Those he once had, he does not mature or develop.

He does not get stronger or weaker or wiser as time goes by. He cannot change for the better. Wrote a w Pink for he is already perfect and being perfect. He cannot change for the worst. Um, and I liked, I did like the little, uh, um, the, I guess is that, I'm just guessing a section of a hymn. We blossom and flourish as leaves on the tree and wither and perish, but not, not change the 

Yeah, it's just a section of the hymn.

Yeah. That I, I don't know what himy it is, but yeah, it is there. It's kinda cool. But yeah, I'm surprised he never heard of waxing and waiting before. 


this is where my brain just really, you know, disappoints me. Because of course when I read Wayne, the first thing I thought of was Bruce Wayne.

I don't 

like my minds. Sometimes I don't, I don't understand it.

How did you think of Bruce Wayne with that? 

Oh, it's literally just cuz of the word Wayne. I was like, Wayne. Hmm. Bruce. Hmm. Uh, yeah,

I, my mind is 


Um, I'm glad there are people who can now experience this with me. It just, see, you just never see my expression of like, what the heck? Where does this come 

from? Deep, no, maybe not deep in, I was just somewhere in this thing in the, in my skull. Okay. 

Um, is there anything else 

in here for me on 77? No. Is there anything that you No.

No? Okay. 

Um, unless I underlined and forgot. 

Nope. On 78 though, however you have God's reveal, the name is of course more than a label. It is a revelation of what he is in relation to us. And then mm-hmm. We have the section where it says in Exodus three, we read how God announced his name to Moses, as I am who I am.

Um, a phrase of which Yahweh, Jehovah the Lord is in effect for, uh, is in effect a shortened form.

Oh yeah. I'm just saying instead of saying, I am who I am. Yeah. Yep. Um, oh, I think I, I think I unwind that too. So in Exodus 34, however, we read how God proclaimed his name, the Lord to Moses by lists, sting the various facets of his holy character. The Lord. The Lord, Yahweh, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands and forgiving wickedness rebellion in sin.

Yet he does not leave the guilty and punished. He punishes the children and their children. It's terrifying. God's moral, moral character is changeless. I don't know what this,

J a S one 17 J J A s. Is that just supposed to be James? Yes, I believe so. Why are they put an S in the, I guess whatever, James, I don't know

with which I'm guessing the for that is with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. 

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. And that is James. I did confirm that. Yeah. Okay. As you can see on the screen, yeah, 

God's truth does not change. You had this underlined as whale, which I put a little star next. Whoa. Yeah. I put a star next to, and then, cause that was something I had. I'm 

smarter than I thought. What? I'm underlining all those things.


Um, people sometimes say things that they do not really mean simply because they do not know their own mind. Then I put also under line because the reviews change and they frequently find that they can no longer stand behind the things they said in the past. Yes. So I guess that's our, us being mutable.

Um mm-hmm. Sometimes I don't like this at the bottom, um, of that paragraph where it says, sometimes we have to eat our words because hard facts refute them. That's a tough one. That's definitely, uh, something people have a hard time doing. 

Question for you. No. Yes. Did Jesus ever have to walk back and eat his words?


no. Okay. I was like, is this a trick question? No, it's not. 

Okay. No. It's like what the, the reason I ask is, uh, this guy right here, I'm gonna play this, uh oh. Uh, this cam comes from, not the bee and, and I, the, the caption on this article says, I promise you this is real. It's not a parody. It's not deep fake.

And despite the bizarre presentation, yeah, this dude really published this, and I know this guy, I've seen him around on social media enough. Oh, it is real. This guy has said this, and he doesn't walk you back, but he says Jesus had to repent. Did you know that there's a part of the gospel of Mark where Jesus uses a racial slur?

In Mark chapter seven, there's the account of the Sian woman, a woman who is Syrian and Greek, both of which there were strong biases against within the Jewish community. And she comes to ask Jesus to heal her daughter who's possessed by a demonn. And what is Jesus' response? He says, it's not good for me to give the children's food, meaning the children of Israel's food to dogs.

He calls her a dog. What's amazing about this account is that the woman doesn't back down. She speaks truth to power. She confronts Jesus and says, well, you can think that about me, but even dogs deserve the crumbs from the table. Her boldness and bravery to speak truth, to power actually changes Jesus' mind.

Jesus repents of his racism and extends healing to this woman's daughter. I love this story because it's a reminder that Jesus is human. He had prejudices and bias, and when confronted with it, he was willing to do his work and this woman was willing to stand up and speak truth. Yeah. Uh, that I just had, I had that in my notes and so I had a put in there.

I was like, yeah, because we're targeted through this whole thing of like house, sometimes we have to eat our words as humans and we have to be like, Hey, I didn't know all that. So not gonna, and this guy's going, oh, Jesus was mu was mutable. That's interesting. I'm like, no, that's not cool. My note says modern times, we have direct contradiction of this idea that God in Jesus in turn is immutable and does not need to repent, or God in Jesus is mutable.

I should have said immutable. I should have said immutable in my notes. Mm-hmm. Um, does, uh, take for example Brandon Robertson, that's his name. He's a gay pastor that believes in gay marriage and all that fun stuff. But yeah, that, yeah. Sorry. When you said that, I was like, oh, that reminds me of my note and you know, eating your words, repenting, going back because you know, repenting is a lot of times.

Is saying, Hey, I was wrong. I was, I did something wrong. I shouldn't have done somethings wrong or I said something wrong. It's repenting. It's, you know, saying sorry. And Jesus never had to do that, you know? Oh. Because he is like God immutable. So he doesn't change in that regard. So that's why I was like, Hmmhmm.

It was like Aaron brought it up. It's time for me to bring my 

time to share. Well, he's gonna be eating those words at some point. You mean 

he's mutable and he's going to repent at some point. Yeah, Brandon. Yeah. Yeah, 

yeah, yeah. Well, hopefully he repents. Shoot. 

Yeah, I know what you mean. But it's gone. What else did I underline in your, in the chapter?

Wow. The next thing was the words of humans. Wow. The words of human beings are unstable things. Mm-hmm. That was the, uh, end for, uh, 78 for you. Okay. Um, Goodness going to, uh, 79 unless there was something you wanted to 

No, no. I don't have anything else in my notes, so, mm-hmm. I must have not thought everything that I underlined was important because that, just cuz I underlined something in the book doesn't mean I necessarily think it's, um, after a second go through is important enough to note down.

Well, at the top of the page you have find where God changes his mind. I'm guessing that's 


you, that that was a note to myself for something. Ah, okay. But I never, I never thought it was important enough to go back and look at, because that, that's a discussion I remember having back in, uh, youth group was like, does God ever change his mind?

Sort of deal. But the thing is just because we understand it, maybe as a change of mind, was it a change of mind or was it outside of his character to do that? It, it's a, it's a, it's a very nuanced thing. It's not a very black and white in that regard. It's a very nuanced, because it might have been something where God wanted it this way, but from our human understanding, it seemed different.

Hmm. But I, as, as I went through it, I was like, you know what? It doesn't add enough to the conversation that I was like, uh, it's not worth it for me to investigate. Interesting. 

You have, remember that God still stands behind all the promises. Okay. And demands and statements of purpose and words of warning that are there addressed to New Testament believers, uh, God's ways do not change.

And this is where you have, well, Calvin Rin Rin down on this side, uh, he continues to act towards sinful men and women in the way. That he does in the Bible story, moving some of those who hear it to repentance while leaving others in their unbelief.


Was there anything else that, in, in this chapter that you like underlined that was jumped out to you? 

Uh, yes. I see some scribbling underlining, so I know that's me. I'm 

scribbling underlined, so Of course. Yeah. All right. So what was in your scribble underlines? 

So, yeah, that's me, right? Yeah, that's me. So, to read a little bit before where I have started the underlining one of two things causes a man to change his mind and reverse his plans, want of foresight to anticipate everything or lack of foresight to ex execute them 

all right.

Was there anything else then after. 

On the last page. Yeah.

If God is the same. Mm-hmm. This is not an issue that any one of us can evade. Um, I'm gonna just for the heck of, I read that whole little paragraph there. It's the last page, the last small paragraph. Okay. But the thought brings a searching challenge too. If our God is the same as the God of the New Testament believers, how can we justify ourselves in resting content with an experience of communion with him and a level of Christian conduct that falls so far below theirs?

If God is the same, this is not an issue that any one of us can evade. 

Why, why did you like underline that? Why did you do that? Why,

I guess was I thinking, oh, maybe I'm missing something. This whole first part, cuz it's in the section we are to be like them. Mm-hmm. Which I'm guessing it's saying we are to be like the believers in

essentially what He's the Golden New Testament. Yeah. Essentially what he's getting at here is he's going back to the start of the chapter. Mm-hmm. Where he's saying it belongs to that world, not this world. It belongs to the Old Testament, the bc, the, you know, the, the Old Eastern world, not our current modern western world, you know, and he is going, but why?

Where's this distance? Where's this difference between our two worlds coming? If we believe in the God that is the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow, there's no difference. There's no difference between our world because we're worshiping the same God who doesn't change through time. There's no difference.

Yes, there might be some cultural differences, but God, the thing right, that is worthy of appraisal, the, the deity that we worship, God himself, doesn't change. And because of that, there is less of a difference between our, between us. You know us now, believers of modern day and believers of ancient day than we think

says On what grounds? On the grounds that God does not change fellowship with him. Trust in His word. Living by faith, standing in the promises of God are essentially the same realities for us, say as they were for the Old and New Testament believers.

It's comforting.

Dunno that 

it is still the same. Say it again. So I believe you here, your face doesn't tell me that you believe it yourself. 

I would say that's comforting that it's still the same. Um, just I guess, yeah, I mean you look at through, which I would, well I shouldn't say I would love to do, I need to do and want to do, but just going like through just the Bible again, just to see um, where or how God treats his people.

Which obviously once you know, you go against, well disobey him and go against what he has called you to do or has set for you to do, unfortunately there will be some consequences. But he is always like, willing and wanting to be there for you again if you trust and get back to obeying kind of thing.

Okay. But

the next chapter, 

yeah. What about the next chapter? Chapter eight, the Majesty of God? Yeah. What about this chapter? Um, 

it made me wanna, uh, it made me wanna, uh, 

it made you wanna break the habit? 

Yes. No, ma Well, it made me wanna, yes, it made me want to, uh, try and make a song. 

There's a lot of things that made you try to wanna make a song and Yeah.

So yeah. Need to break that habit. What? Try 

and just 

do. Yep. Yeah. There is no try. Only do. 

No, I mean, there's try. Just don't get far, so 

not all the time. All right, so chapter eight is called The Majesty of God. I'm gonna read the summary generated by ai Oh, here, AI stuff. Yep. Chapter eight of Knowing God by j Packer is titled The Majesty of God.

Hey, he got that right in this chapter, packer emphasized the greatness and holiness of God and the awe and reverence that should characterize our relationship with him. Packer begins by explaining that God's majesty encompasses his greatness, his sovereignty, and his holiness. He argues our understanding of God's majesty is essential to our worship of Him, and that should inspire a deep sense of reverence and humility in our.

Packer then goes on to discuss some common misunderstandings about God's majesty, such as the idea that God's greatness and holiness are distant or unapproachable. He argues that while God's majesty should inspire a sense of all reverence, it should also lead us to all near to him in faith and worship.

Furthermore, packer suggests that an understanding of God's majesty has practical implications for our daily lives. He explains, if we truly believe in God's majesty, we will strive to live holy and obedient lives, and we'll also seek to share the gospel with others so that they too may come to know and worship him.

Overall. Chapter eight, knowing God emphasizes the importance of understanding and appreciating God's majesty and the impact that this understanding should have on our worship and our daily lives as believers. Woo. Aaron, your take on chapter eight, the Majesty of God. That was 

nice. That was a nice little rhyme right there.

Take on chapter eight Worked

well. You have majesty and greatness underlined, which is our word. Majesty comes from the Latin, meaning greatness. Yep.

So majesty, when apply to God, there's always a declaration of his greatness and invitation to worship. AI was doing pretty good with saying, gosh, I don't, I was really getting into it. Ooh. It looks like at the bottom of, is it 85? I'm looking for scribbles. 

Okay. Um, yeah, go over your scribbles cuz those are gonna be more important for.

So 80 at the bottom of 85, I can hide my heart and my past and my future plans from those around me, but I cannot hide anything from God. I can talk in a way that deceives my fellow preachers as to why, as to what I really am, but nothing I say or do can deceive God. You see us through all my reserve and pretense.

He knows he knows me as I really am better indeed than I know myself.

It's kind of freaky. 



of freaky, huh? Um, yes. Why so I, well, at the top of the page, I, I wrote in your book and I'm so sorry. That's fine. I did have why then do we lie or I guess like in a sense lie to people and kind of deceive others around us. And so I had a couple little, two little questions.

Was it, is it These were just first thoughts? Yeah. Right away was, was it for our own like pleasure? Are we afraid to be honest and deal with like the sin and what we actually want? Desire, I guess as our root kind of thing? Mm-hmm. I don't know. I was like, is it just both of them? Which I imagine 

it's just both of them and I to some degree.

To some degree. I don't know so much unless you really like to cause pain. If you're really like lying for pleasure. Well, I mean 

a lot of people do.

I don't know if they like to cause Well, it's, they, it's more they wanna maybe prevent pain to themselves. Well to themselves. 


Not to other people though. Yeah. I dunno. I, I get, this is where I start nitpicking things and like the terminology and the wording. Trust me, I just did a competition at work and I overthought every single answer and almost cost my team the win because I spent almost the entire time on question one because I was overthinking it.

It's, it's, uh, I freely admit I will do that. 

Well, I guess I, I'm, I guess well, like lying doesn't have to 

hurt. No, it doesn't necessarily. So yeah, I, 

cause I'm, I guess I'm thinking I ly was just like the first, I guess. Simplistic, probably incorrect word to use. We're, but we're, it talks about hiding your heart sort of thing, right?

Like what, when you're interacting with people,

I guess I'm, I just think of like the whole putting on the church face thing. Mm-hmm. Where if you're going to church, you can interact and in a sense, I guess sort of enjoy the benefits of a church community. Put that on the backside you, how you, I, well, I guess just a great, uh, description of a hypocrite, which that you just do whatever you want in your own time and live your own life and do your own things and just kind of use the church and abuse a church sort of thing for your own benefit.

All right. Fair. Um, so that was, I guess one of the things I was thinking of. And

Okay. When I get, and when I think of like being afraid to be honest about what's going in the heart is then going through the pain of dealing with it because it does hurt. Okay. To try and correct and fix, I guess the sinful nature of ourselves. See 

this added a bunch of context in that helped me now.

There you go. Be able to understand and comprehend your question better. Ok. Because just taking the questions at face value, at first I was like, uh, yes, I'm, I, I need more context lose, otherwise I'm gonna fill into my own context, lose and then over, over ended it and then that there's my things happen, there's my stuff.

But yeah, we, we do. So read the questions again cuz I wanna make sure I understand them with this added context. Well. Read. Just, just read them. 

So it's, it's, why do we, I guess I wanna say just deceive, but is easier to write, smaller to write, lie right. To people. And then, so on the side thought, like the question answers I had for it was mm-hmm.

Is it so far just our own pleasures? Or is it because we're afraid to be honest with it and deal with our sinful desire kind of thing? Or is it just 

both? Because it can be both. I would say probably more number two. Mm-hmm. Uh, uh, than anything. And, and the reason I say it's probably gonna be more, number two is a lot of these times when we're gonna put on these fake masks, so to speak mm-hmm.

It's because we don't want to be found out about something and we want to fit in with that culture. What or that group, whatever that may be. Mm-hmm. And we know if they see the real what's behind the mask. Or at least we think, we think that if they see what's behind the mask, they may not approve of or agree with or accept us based on that.

And therefore, in order to fit in mm-hmm. We will deceive by putting mask, donning that mask, donning those lies, donning those desires down deep and on the surface do what needs to be done. That's my, yeah, you've kind of played the game 

Exactly. But then, which in the end is causing you a lot more pain

in the long haul. 

Oh yeah. And then also what it does is, and uh, he puts, I had my heart, my past, my future plants from those around me. Right. Yeah. If you hide your heart, if you hide your.

There's a difference between being proud of your past and like if it's things that you've done that are sinful, let's say, okay. Mm-hmm. Whatever it is, there's a difference between being proud of and being like, I slept with a hundred woman. Look at me. What was that game? The body count. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Woo.

Okay. The, there's a difference between that. Okay. And being, Hey, you know what? When I was younger, before I met God, or while I was walking away from God, I screwed up. Here's how I screwed up. Here's why I regret that. And it's not that you go and tell that to everyone. Right. But, but for example, okay, I'm actually going to be going to, um, lunch with Yeah.

My, the youth pastor at my, the church I'm going to now. Yeah. And we're gonna go to lunch. And literally he's like, I want to hear your story.

This is gonna be a lunch and dinner and maybe breakfast tomorrow thing. 

See, you know, what's going on, right? Yeah. There is stuff in my past I am not proud of. Okay. No, but here's the deal. I can now use the knowledge of some of that. Mm-hmm. Like when, if we go and he goes, I have a team that's dealing with blah.

He goes, I, I have no idea. And you know, like, Hey, I can at least guide you on some of this cuz I've been there, done that. Have the T-shirt, you know, whatever whatev, whatever the current phrase is. Uh, he'll, he'll somehow be some weird club phrase. I don't know that he knows. Okay. Gosh. Yeah. Okay. Whatever it is.

Yeah. So there's a difference between me going, well, yeah, I did this. Look at me. I'm so awesome. And the, I went through this. I know what it's like. I know how it kills and eats from the inside. Here's my advice on how to get through it. There's a difference there, because on one, those, the heart is prideful over what happened, unrepentant, and one them, the heart is, I screwed up.

I messed up. I wanna help others not make that same or as deep a mistake as I did. Right. And that's why I, I see that I can hide my heart, my past, my future plans from those around me. I can hide thing from God. Well, at the same time, don't have to hide it if you decide not to hide it, and it's God honoring.

Even if it's a bad screw in the past, it can be used for good. And that's why, like I said, me and him are gonna go and have lunch one these days and um, it's going to be a longer lunch. You better be ready there. There's like, yeah, I, I, I, I haven't told him yet. I was like, but essentially there's like three threats that will be woven throughout and like, look, here's a story of three threads and we're gonna have, um, 

quite the conversation.

Yeah. I don't think you know what you're getting yourself into. 

Oh no. I know he doesn't know what he is getting himself into. I really, you know what's crazy? I think he's about your age.

I'm glad I don't have the same. Same. What 

phrases? No, at least not all of 'em. Yeah, it's funny. It's, it's funny. But he's a, he's a goof. He's a goof that, yes, that's for sure. And uh, this past Sunday actually, uh, yeah, he spoke well, so not, well, not So he spoke at, at adult church, right? Yeah. But in youth group, his youth pastor from when he was a teenager from in Indiana, came and spoke to the youth group.

This, this past 

Sunday. Last, yeah, last week. Sunday. Yeah. Wow. That's fun. Uhhuh. 

Interesting. That was very entertaining. 

So it there like a resemblance and, oh no, I, okay. Oh no, I wouldn't have 

thought so. Was there. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. But. 

But yeah, I shoot, I was say when you were saying, um, ear earlier where it's like you, you know, doesn't mean you have to go out and tell everybody, everything myself is just like, screw it.

What does it matter anymore? 

You know? And then that, that, that's to some degree, and that's your call. Yes. You know that, that there's certain things that you can share, whatever. There's certain things that I'm gonna share 

every personal detail with everybody about my 

life. No, I, I wouldn't say that they're more like sensitive, but they're also at the same time, like,

okay, there's a, I'm trying to talk without talking, if that makes sense. I don't know how 

you do that. 

Okay. There's a certain group I'm a part of and. On Discord, and I was chatting with one of the guys on there and he was going, how do you tell your parents about this? Okay, this is a, a, a group that's just for guys in here, okay?

For accountability and some other stuff. Okay? I think I've told you about it. In fact, I know I've told you about, um, and one, what I told the, this guy and, and every, all the chats are in public there, there's no private chats in, in this thing. Okay? So for full accountability on stuff. And what I told him is this.

I said, as I've grown older and dealt with this, I've learned a couple things. One of those things is not everyone needs to know your business in this regard because not everyone has their be your best interest in this regard, right? Some of the, some people, regardless of their family or friends, will take whatever and use it as a weapon against you if you're at a spot.

Maturity-wise and stability-wise, where you can endure that, then do whatever you like. But if you even doubt yourself, be wise on who you talk to about this, because it may seem like it's not an issue now, but down the road it will be. And if I seem cagey about what I'm talking about, I am for the moment.

We'll get there. Wait, what? We'll get there eventually. Oh, 

okay. Okay. I'll say, wait, 

what? We'll get there eventually. You know 

what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, I'm, I'm following. I, I didn't catch camera and 

audio. Camera and audio. Don't know. We'll get there eventually. Don't worry. That's gonna come a few months.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. A few of them. Yeah. Me and Aaron going, me and Aaron have been talking about this since January. Don't even, don't even tell 


when. Since January of this year for later on this year. Almost half a year in, I gave you almost a half year lead on this. A half a year time is flying by, I said almost a half year.

I didn't give you quite a half a year, but not a full half year almost. Yeah. So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm being cagey a little bit, but not because I don't want to say Right. But at the same time I'm being cagey. So that way we have, I don't break anything that you wanna say on that. Gotcha. On that, on that thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Or talk about is that, that's gonna be Aaron's like one of his, where he leads fully. It's gonna be great. No, it's it's gonna be awesome. Goodness. It's gonna be chef's kiss. I've been seeing that 

more lately. I'm like, where is this coming from? Like this, that phrase, it's just like, 

All right. It's the internet.

The internet brings stuff to fruition. However it likes, well regards effect. That's what we're, we're talking about these chapters again. Um, yeah. Was there anything else in this chapter that you had, because I do have some other notes as well. Both sides. 

Yeah. Go ahead. Uh, cause the next thing I, it, it's starts on the second half of 86.

Okay. I, I'm going back to 83 here. Yeah. Keep, yeah. Go. I wrote this, the one reason why Faith is so feeble and our worship is flabby because we lack knowledge of God's majesty according to Packer. Yes. The other thing is he referenced a book called Your God Is Too Small. Did, did you just catch it? I, I did.

Yes, I did say that. Okay. So I had to look it up because I was like, what is this book? I don't know anything about this. What is this? So Your God is Too Small as a book written by JB Phillips that explores common misconceptions about God and challenges readers, readers to expand their understanding of him, um, Phillips says and argues that many people have a limited in inadequate view of God, shaped by their own experiences and preconceptions.

He identifies 12 different false gods that people often worship instead of the true God, such as the resident policeman, who is only concerned with punishing wrong doors, or the grand old man who is distant and disconnected from everyday life. Uh, God, Phillips goes on to say that God is much greater than any of these false gods, and that our understanding of him should be shaped by the Bible and by the life of Jesus.

He emphasizes that God is not just a distant, impersonal force by a loving and caring father who is intimately involved in our lives. Throughout the book, Philip encourages readers to examine their beliefs about God and to challenge any misconceptions or limitations may have had. They may have. He emphasizes that the importance of a personal, personal relationship with God and the transformative power that comes from a deeper understanding of his nature and character.

So I was like, okay, that that, you know, that that explains why he included in here. Cuz he goes, this is a timely book. I was like, yeah, this might been an timely book when you wrote this and when it first came out. But now in 2023 before like, huh, haven't read heard of this book. How's it timely? Why is it timely?

That's why it's timely. Cause it talks about those misconceptions we have about God. Period. And then 83 84, I wrote, God is personal yet majestic, where we are finite and not majestic. I think of majestic Timothy. Think of majestic. I think of one of those like pets with long flowing majestic hair. Yeah.

Okay. Sorry, a unicorn. And then since you said you didn't have anything till 86 here, correct? Uh, God is not a mere cosmic principle. He's not sitting there going down the hallway of life going, you're late to school. Go down to your classroom now. Da ba you're skipping class again. Naughty. Naughty. Um, he's not a personal and different, he's a living person, unfortunately, unlike us.

Well, unfortunately for us, I should say, unlike us, he doesn't have any of our flaws. So, you know, yeah. We can't go, oh God screwed up like us. No, because he doesn't screw up. Sorry. He's not agnostic. Sorry, Josh.

Now, when he talks about, you know, some faith and all that, and our response to majesty and everything, he talks about, uh, Abraham and Sarah. Her reaction when she was told she was going to be pregnant with a kid. And I wrote here, I mean, if I'm being honest, I'd probably laugh too if I was told I was going to have a kid in my nineties much more.

So if I was gonna be the one to bear it as Sarah was as a man, I know I would be able to produce a child. Although it might induce che chess clenching in my nineties. Yeah. Might produce a heart attack or something. Oh, yeah. Too much physical exercise apparently. Well, that's, that's what I wrote. 

So they probably got a lot more than we do today though.

Oh yeah. No, they didn't. Probably they did. 

Yeah. And that's what I'm saying, especially like in our modern day and how we live and everything together. Yeah. We, yeah. Be dead. Oh, this. And this was the last note I wrote and I was just like, I, I was like, I. How Packer tells us to compare and think of God in this specific way, a k a, using our imagination to think of God just reminds me of an earlier chapter where he says, don't use your imagination to think of God as a specific way when worshiping, remember when he was talking about, um, idolatry and all that and using our imagination, everything.

I was like just, I didn't say it was a direct contradiction. I just said it reminded me of of that back in the earlier chapters. I was like, oh, that's so cute. 

Interesting. That even, 

how's that again? Whoa. Thank you. I wanted two takes of that. No, you're welcome. You have to realize now.

Gosh, that's interesting. Yeah. Didn't even think about that. Now I'm kind of curious to go back through that beginning stuff and check that out. 

You do realize that, you know, when I did research papers in that in college, I like finding links between chapters of books was like what? I did a lot of analyzing books, analyzing songs, analyzing movies.

Everything is separate. Okay. No, everything is awesome. Okay. 

Adding that song to the list, 

I'm gonna use my one, Vito,

anything else from this chapter? Because I know it's already near the end of it. It is. 

I So the thing that like got me, I was like, oh, song was all of this, uh, where it just talks about like, behold your God. Yeah. Um, I like how it says that pretty much at the end of every, every, uh, paragraph for the section of the incomparable one.

Mm-hmm. And I have the whole, I get something about the third full paragraph. I was just like, yeah, how was that again? 

I'd put three exclamation points. No, I won the whole, I won the sound back. All right, 

so it goes. Now look at the nations. The profit continues, the great national powers that who is mercy.

You feel yourselves to be as Syria, Egypt, Babylon. You stand in awe of them and feel afraid of them. So vastly do their name, armies well names wow, arm so vastly, do their armies and resources exceed yours? But now consider how God stands related to those mighty forces, which you fear so much. Surely the nations are like a drop in the bucket.

They are regarded as dust on the scales before, before him. All the nations are as nothing. They are regarded by him as worthless and less than nothing as, uh, Isaiah 40, 15 and 17. You tremble before the nations, I'm guessing. I'm hoping they had to check that on me. 

No, that is Isaiah. Okay. 

Who, uh, you tremble before the nations because you are much weaker than they, but God is so much greater than the nations that they are as nothing to him.

Behold your God. And I mean, so all this stuff just wants to, uh, think about just how great, I guess, obviously the whole majestic. Mm-hmm. He is. And

yeah, this was, I just, I loved this section cause I was like, you, he gets, so everybody does it, but he just gets so caught up in thinking of. Obviously how minuscule we are compared to the people that are above us sort of thing. And it's depending on what the situation is. I mean, it's easy to be fearful and afraid and of certain things going on, especially as the world seems to get crazy and crazier every moment.

Um, but oh yeah, it's, I guess reading that was just a reminder and just something that just brought some peace of mind where it's like, yes, all this stuff is going on. There's nothing I can do. I guess for, to some degree, some stuff, but it's like at the end of the day, this God that we serve is ultimately in control and they.

Obviously absolutely nothing compared to him. So at the end of the day, 

let's say we're in good hands, all right, 

in great hands per se, that just, that whole section, I was like, man, this is sweet. Uh, so yeah, that part got me excited. Then yeah, the next stuff I have is on, well, just a little segment I've underlined is in the bottom of 88, and there's one more thing.

I, I think this is, you have underlined on 89. So for the thing in 88 is, oh, I'm gonna, so it's in a section titled Our Response to Majesty, and I am in a couple paragraphs down. At the end of one, uh, at the end of like the second little, third, I guess, technical paragraph. If you have been resigning yourself to the thought that God has left you high and dry, seek grace to be ashamed of yourself.

Such unbelieving pessimism, deeply dishonors our great, our great God and Savior. I was like, Hmm. I

thought that was interesting. Was to seek grace to be ashamed of yourself. I was like, seek grace to be ashamed. I, I, I 

guess it seems contradictory in terms, doesn't it? Yeah. That seemed weird. Essentially what I think he's trying to say. Find a way to humble yourself about this. 

You should just write something simpler.

He's British. He can't write simple. 

That's just not in his forte. His forte. And then at the end for 89 is the section that is underlined is how slow we are to believe in God as God, uh, sovereign, all seen in almighty. How little, no, I'm just continuing on. Mm-hmm. How little we make of the majesty of our Lord and Savior Christ.

The need for us is to wait upon the Lord and meditations of his majesty till we find our strength renewed through the writing of these things, upon our hearts. But yeah, especially, uh, as American folk. I would say

probably are very slow to really, I guess, believe in God as God sort of thing or others. We just don't have that like immediate confidence and in him and trust as opposed to other countries where that's pretty much all they have. We have it so nice and fluffy and soft here. 

Hmm. Yeah. That we do. All right, well you literally closed out chapter eight.

Good job, Aaron. Thanks.